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First Classical
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8894		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WarrenG [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:49 am ]
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Hi folks,

I lurk more than I post but here are a few shots of my first classical build:



The Ziricote back:


The bracing pattern for those who are interested:


As an aside, I brought this guitar around for some players to test and get their impressions. One in particular, a flamenco instructor predominantly, managed to gouge the French-polished shellac a few times near the soundhole, even though I forewarned him to be careful. He felt no remorse about it. Merely shrugged his shoulders and said, "I'm a flamenco player, what'd you expect?"

How do YOU deal with this and the damage caused by test pilots? What if I actually was trying to sell it?

It's ONLY my own instrument, BTW, so I'm not quite as peeved as I may seem. Thoughts?

Cheers,
Warren
Author:  gibson355 [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:10 am ]
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Man that's a nice guitar! Can we get a closeup of the rosette?

Cheers,

Richard
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:11 am ]
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That is thew wonderful thing about FP finish. The repair is the same as you put it on. Body, glaze and buff.

Nice work MichaelP39007.5091435185
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:29 am ]
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Gorgeous guitar Warren, hope you can fix the ding easily though. This flamenco player has no class!
Author:  A Peebels [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:43 am ]
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Is his name Estiban ?

Al A Peebels39007.5309143519
Author:  WarrenG [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:50 am ]
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Thanks guys, I'll take some shots of the rosette tonight. Basically, it's another piece of Ziricote bound in black and white.

I was mostly irked because I haven't done the final photo shoot yet. I was planning on doing it this weekend.

Now I'll post the 00...
Author:  dgalas [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:17 am ]
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Warren, I know some luthiers of note keep handy an envelope full of those
static-cling decals for just such purposes. They cut them out go around the
perimeter of the sound hole and protect the top on either side of the strings.
When putting the decals on it also sends a message to the player that
keeping the instrument blemish-free is being taken seriously. Good luck on
the repair!

Cheers,
-Dave
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:00 am ]
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Warren, that looks very nice.
I even like your "backdrop". Artistic way to show the guitar. Perhaps a bit more light, then remove that green tape, put up a few more outrageously priced hand tools, and you've almost got a Garrett Wade photo.

Anyway, good luck on your finish fix.

Steve
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:32 am ]
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Very nice. I can't wait to see the rosette up close.

How did you decide on the bracing pattern?

Author:  WarrenG [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:48 am ]
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[QUOTE=jtkirby] Very nice. I can't wait to see the rosette up close.

How did you decide on the bracing pattern?

[/QUOTE]

I followed the pattern that Sergei de Jonge has been using for some time. It seemed to avoid the pitfalls of the distorted lower bout that I've seen in quite a few older fan-braced classicals.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:43 am ]
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Warren,
Very nice effort! Congrats! Can you attempt to describe the sound to us and how you think that bracing pattern may have played a role in the overall sound?
Author:  Dave White [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:51 am ]
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[QUOTE=WarrenG]
As an aside, I brought this guitar around for some players to test and get their impressions. One in particular, a flamenco instructor predominantly, managed to gouge the French-polished shellac a few times near the soundhole, even though I forewarned him to be careful. He felt no remorse about it. Merely shrugged his shoulders and said, "I'm a flamenco player, what'd you expect?"

How do YOU deal with this and the damage caused by test pilots? [/QUOTE]

Warren,

I suppose you could always pull out an axe, put on the Jack Nicholson smile and say "I'm a psychopath, what'd you expect?"

Lovely looking guitar
Author:  WarrenG [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:28 am ]
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[QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] Warren,
Very nice effort! Congrats! Can you attempt to describe the sound to us and how you think that bracing pattern may have played a role in the overall sound?[/QUOTE]

Firstly, it's way too early to tell. Three players commented on this right away. That it sounded very new. "Play it and come back in a month.", they said. I'll place it in front of the speaker and blast Rachel Gauk and Sylvie Proulx at it for a few weeks. I'll expect the guitar to play as well as them afterwards.   

Sergei and Joshia use the same pattern so maybe this review is appropriate:     http://www.guitarsint.com/detail.cfm/id/431

I'm not good at judging the sound of nylon-stringed instruments. To me, mine sounded like everything else being built in the shop at the time including the aforementioned classical from Joshia. I would call it balanced but I think there's a lot more bass to come...
Author:  jfrench [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:09 am ]
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Warren - great work! Very classy looking on all levels.

As far as people gouging the french polish... Everyone thinks they're being careful about it. Everyone. I see some guitars I've made that look like a bear played them after a year or so. On the same token, I got to see one about a year old this weekend (the customer dropped it off to have side dots installed) and it looks as good as the day I sent it to him.

If you French polish, you just have to live with the fact that you may have to be doing some touching up. This is a lot easier to accept if you send it to the customer and at that point its perfect. And a lot more difficult if you leave the house with it looking perfect, bring it all over town to get players perceptions, and then have to touch it up before its final destination.

I don't let anyone touch my guitars between the time I'm finished with them and the time they're sent. More headache then its worth. I'd rather let someone else play it in the white.
Author:  Shawn [ Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:01 am ]
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I typically use "kling-on" brand removable guards when people are playing to prevent gouges...they are easy to use and prevent most but not all abuse.

Note that I use these for guitars that I have built but are not spoken for our are part of my collection. Just as Joshua does, if a guitar is for someone once I finish it, no one handles it before it ships.

In general I prefer to keep guitars that are built but not shipped unfinished. That way if I need to make any corrections, touch up anywhere where someone was not gentle and clean up before finishing. If it is unfinished, I have no problem with playing my guitars.
Author:  WarrenG [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:49 am ]
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Thanks for the advice guys. A girlfriend of mine who teaches arts and crafts has those static vinyl sheets. She's going to give me a few.

Here's the rosette, as promised and an overlit look at the waist (don't worry - the knots are zapped up).



Author:  CarltonM [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:01 am ]
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With or without finish, here's something else to watch out for. When I was taking classical guitar lessons many years ago, I loaned my shiney new Matsuoka to a player traveling on the college circuit. He was giving a class demonstration, and let others use his guitar while he used mine. Sounds ideal, 'cause he's a pro and would take extra care with my guitar, right? Well, he did, but as with the above-mentioned flamenco player, he had his own technique, which included resting his right hand pinky on the soundboard. He also grew his pinky fingernail to match the others on his right hand, and, sure enough, left a very visible dent in my soundboard. He even apologized afterword, but the damage was done.

The point is, players just don't realize how they might be damaging an instrument because they take for granted any wear on thier own instruments, and don't know how to modify their techniques to avoid damage on someone else's.

Those temporary plastic guards sound like a very good idea.
Author:  rich altieri [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:52 am ]
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Man,that is one good looking guitar - really nice job.

Author:  Michael McBroom [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:31 pm ]
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Very nice looking guitar, Warren -- especially for a first try! Makes me wanna go bust up my first one and use it for firewood.   

As for the flamenco player -- that's the way they are, it's in their nature (reminds me of the old frog and scorpion parable). It would be kinda like inviting a drummer to play your set of drums but telling him he couldn't use the kick pedal. Sooner or later, he'd end up using it without thinking about it.

Best,

Michael

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